Wasted potential

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21.05.2014, 03:59

I gave you the official statement of why the Devs picked the MMO format. It's a MMO format, in FPS perspective, with some RPG elements (skill tree and whatever).

Massive / Massively: Can equal the world or maps sizes also, it doesn't have to mean the amount of players in the world at once.

Multiplayer: Any number greater than 1 online, in the same session, makes it multiplayer.

Online: To play Suravrium, you will be required to be online.

Also it's in the Survarium back story lore, as to why there isn't alot of people around.

Also Stalker series wasn't well known either but it was still an awesome game series.

So I guess, we'll just have to wait and see.

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21.05.2014, 06:54

Raider65:I gave you the official statement of why the Devs picked the MMO format. It's a MMO format, in FPS perspective, with some RPG elements (skill tree and whatever).

Massive / Massively: Can equal the world or maps sizes also, it doesn't have to mean the amount of players in the world at once.

Multiplayer: Any number greater than 1 online, in the same session, makes it multiplayer.

Online: To play Suravrium, you will be required to be online.

Also it's in the Survarium back story lore, as to why there isn't alot of people around.

Also Stalker series wasn't well known either but it was still an awesome game series.

So I guess, we'll just have to wait and see.

By this logic, Saints Row 3 co-op is a MMO.
Part of being a MMO is hosting a large amount of people in one area simultaneously.
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21.05.2014, 07:34

That goes against the Survarium lore.

And 30 can be alot of players.
Last edited by Raider65 on 21.05.2014, 11:05, edited 1 time in total.

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21.05.2014, 08:18

Let's just all agree that this thread should be shut and tossed down a very deep hole and never seen again...

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21.05.2014, 16:12

Raider65:I gave you the official statement of why the Devs picked the MMO format. It's a MMO format, in FPS perspective, with some RPG elements (skill tree and whatever).

Massive / Massively: Can equal the world or maps sizes also, it doesn't have to mean the amount of players in the world at once.


Wrong.

"A massively multiplayer online game. A computer game in which a large number of players can simultaneously interact in a persistent world or can potentially play against a large number of players in matchmaking" - wiktionary

"A massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) refers to videogames that allow a large number of players to participate simultaneously over an internet connection". - techopedia

"A massively multiplayer online game (also called MMO and MMOG) is a multiplayer video game which is capable of supporting large numbers of players simultaneously." - wikipedia


You getting the picture here? 30 players is not at the MMO level. That's why CS and BF4 and so many other multiplayer shooters do not and will not use the MMO genre tag because they don't allow a large enough number of players online at once to play together to be at the MMO level.

Anyway back to the real issue here; the numbers...I'm still waiting on those. Devs, fans, webteam? Anyone got player numbers for Survarium? Or the number of accounts for the forum? Hell, even the combined number of fans/users across the 3 mediums (forum/facebook/game) as I mentioned earlier? Because those numbers will instantly prove or disprove everything I've stated. I'm assuming that is what most of you want, is to see my be proven wrong so let's do it. I'll gladly accept that I'm wrong if the numbers say so.
Last edited by Raven1417 on 21.05.2014, 16:17, edited 2 times in total.
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21.05.2014, 16:17

Dangah:Let's just all agree that this thread should be shut and tossed down a very deep hole and never seen again...


^ Yep.
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21.05.2014, 16:35

Dangah:Let's just all agree that this thread should be shut and tossed down a very deep hole and never seen again...


There's no fun in that. What can be fun is learning. People here could learn the basics of market research and simple logistics which can be applied to future game purchases (especially with the prevalence of "early access" titles nowadays) or to game development itself. As for those not interested in either, there's always the simple pleasure of seeing people proven wrong (whether it's myself or the fans).

Either way, school is in session, let's see who learns the lesson.
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21.05.2014, 16:38

Raven1417:
Because those numbers will instantly prove or disprove everything I've stated. I'm assuming that is what most of you want, is to see my be proven wrong so let's do it. I'll gladly accept that I'm wrong if the numbers say so.

My guess; 80.000 - 100.000 People signed up on the website.
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Mr Polska
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21.05.2014, 16:49

Raven1417:[.....].


At the open doors you could potentially play against 4000 players, should be enough for a MMO. ;)
And there are no numbers and Vostok can't give this information to the public.
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Heavygunner
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21.05.2014, 16:49

right so this whole thread boils down to a Dude hammering on a game that is not even out yet, that he didn`t pay 1 cent for, other ppl dismissing his ideeas, yet all the other that are against him are wrong and he is right o.o

can a mod just close the thread since it is pointless from the "Title" it has o.o

no need to feed Internet Warriors more than they are already o.o
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21.05.2014, 16:56

Heavygunner:

At the open doors you could potentially play against 4000 players, should be enough for a MMO. ;)
And there are no numbers and Vostok can't give this information to the public.


So 4000 is a funny little joke and total bollocks, nice work :P

Also, Vostok CAN give this information to the public as it involves no personal identifiers of any kind that would breach privacy statements and there are no other legal barriers pertaining to user numbers that would be in play to stop them from releasing the number of fans on this website or their facebook page or the number of those who have beta access. So it's a matter of Vostok WON'T give out that information and that is worrying. The first sign of trouble in any company project is the refusal to produce simple figures. Again, basic marketing and sales.

AlexTheSeeker:right so this whole thread boils down to a Dude hammering on a game that is not even out yet, that he didn`t pay 1 cent for, other ppl dismissing his ideeas, yet all the other that are against him are wrong and he is right o.o

can a mod just close the thread since it is pointless from the "Title" it has o.o

no need to feed Internet Warriors more than they are already o.o


All I'm asking for are facts to disprove the facts I've presented. It's not exactly asking for the meaning of life from God himself now is it?
Last edited by Raven1417 on 21.05.2014, 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
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21.05.2014, 17:55

There's no single understanding of MMO as a notion. This one for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_ ... nline_game

If our game supports many players simultaneously, which is the fact when you are in the lobby chatting or making squads with your friends or watching stats etc, the game can well be called an MMO.

Also, it's not very clear where the watershed between 'massive' and 'not so massive' is, in other words, how many players there should be in one game to make it count as 'massive' - 20, 100, 500?

Also, as for "wasted potential" fear not. Rather wait until we release the actual final game before making this judgement as we have many years of development ahead of us :)
Last edited by joewillburn on 21.05.2014, 17:56, edited 1 time in total.
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21.05.2014, 18:25

joewillburn:There's no single understanding of MMO as a notion. This one for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_ ... nline_game

If our game supports many players simultaneously, which is the fact when you are in the lobby chatting or making squads with your friends or watching stats etc, the game can well be called an MMO.

Also, it's not very clear where the watershed between 'massive' and 'not so massive' is, in other words, how many players there should be in one game to make it count as 'massive' - 20, 100, 500?

Also, as for "wasted potential" fear not. Rather wait until we release the actual final game before making this judgement as we have many years of development ahead of us :)


Joe, are you seriously being that obtuse? It is extremely clear what an MMO is and isn't. Find me 10 games that have player caps similar to Survarium that lists themselves as MMOs and I mean games made within the last 10 years, not something from the days where 56k dialup was considered "high-speed internet". Find me those games and I will concede that MMO is a term that is ambiguous as you suggest. Otherwise you're wrong and the games that present themselves as MMOs today prove by majority that a true MMO allows for 100+ players to simultaneously interact in a persistant world whether open or instanced. Also to even remotely suggest that lobbies count as being in-game is a sad cop out, is that what Vostok is going to do? Resort to a poor attempt at semantics?

Beyond that, I've already pointed out that "the actual final game" is irrelevant. It's in beta, most of the work is done. This is common knowledge, there is no denying that a game in beta stage is mostly complete hence why most open-betas focus purely on server stress tests and closed betas focus purely on minor bug fixes.

Seriously though, just providing the requested numbers will easily put ALL of this to rest instead of you and the fans responding with unfounded speculation that has no factual backing of any kind. If the numbers can't be provided then at the very least can you give me a 100% undeniable legal reason for needing to withhold those numbers?
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21.05.2014, 18:36

joewillburn:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_game
Also, it's not very clear where the watershed between 'massive' and 'not so massive' is, in other words, how many players there should be in one game to make it count as 'massive' - 20, 100, 500?

Same article was calling games with less than 50 players a non-mmo.
Heck, I used to play 64 player servers on CSS, still not a MMO.
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21.05.2014, 18:43

Raven1417 wrote:
Joe, are you seriously being that obtuse? It is extremely clear what an MMO is and isn't. Find me 10 games that have player caps similar to Survarium that lists themselves as MMOs and I mean games made within the last 10 years, not something from the days where 56k dialup was considered "high-speed internet". Find me those games and I will concede that MMO is a term that is ambiguous as you suggest. Otherwise you're wrong and the games that present themselves as MMOs today prove by majority that a true MMO allows for 100+ players to simultaneously interact in a persistant world whether open or instanced. Also to even remotely suggest that lobbies count as being in-game is a sad cop out, is that what Vostok is going to do? Resort to a poor attempt at semantics?

Beyond that, I've already pointed out that "the actual final game" is irrelevant. It's in beta, most of the work is done. This is common knowledge, there is no denying that a game in beta stage is mostly complete hence why most open-betas focus purely on server stress tests and closed betas focus purely on minor bug fixes.

Seriously though, just providing the requested numbers will easily put ALL of this to rest instead of you and the fans responding with unfounded speculation that has no factual backing of any kind. If the numbers can't be provided then at the very least can you give me a 100% undeniable legal reason for needing to withhold those numbers?


Not trying to be obtuse. We are just expressing our interpretation for the game model we have chosen. As for "most of the work being done" that is so far from the actual truth I cannot express it. We're in CBT of the first of three game modes, you seem well informed so I'm not going to go on about the different modes, but suffice to say that there are years of development ahead before the final release and even then, at a later stage, more content will be added. Even the CBT of the current PvP mode does not have all or even 50% of it's planned content. :)

To address your MMO questions... our ultimate goal is to eventually combine the entire world of Survarium into one massive game world. So, in terms of size, that should satisfy your definition of MMO. As for the number of players, at present we have our goals but these (as most things are) subject to change during development and as we see fit.

:)
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21.05.2014, 19:12

joewillburn:

Not trying to be obtuse. We are just expressing our interpretation for the game model we have chosen. As for "most of the work being done" that is so far from the actual truth I cannot express it. We're in CBT of the first of three game modes, you seem well informed so I'm not going to go on about the different modes, but suffice to say that there are years of development ahead before the final release and even then, at a later stage, more content will be added. Even the CBT of the current PvP mode does not have all or even 50% of it's planned content. :)

To address your MMO questions... our ultimate goal is to eventually combine the entire world of Survarium into one massive game world. So, in terms of size, that should satisfy your definition of MMO. As for the number of players, at present we have our goals but these (as most things are) subject to change during development and as we see fit.

:)


So why are you in beta then? Beta testing one mode at a time? "years of development ahead before the final release"? Combine it into one world? If we're talking years, and we are if you're going to combine three separate modes that exist on an individual basis (talk about reworking an implemented system...geez) then you should barely be in pre-alpha stages. Beta testing is at most 6-12 months out from final release and carries at least 80% of the final content. You're going to have to do three CBT's as opposed to one. Not to mention that this creates a staggered effect between modes in terms of polish and implementation of features. Why not stick to alpha testing and get the three modes implemented and developed simultaneously? Also, you might want to remove that release schedule image if this is all true as it's clearly not close to being accurate.


Heavygunner:
The number was not ment to show how successful/unsuccessful Survarium is, but more to proof that Survarium is a MMO. At the Open doors day 100 000 people logged onto the site and I doubt that all these people come here because of the "wasted potenial". That is a fairly good result for 24h and a small studio like Vostok Games.

Source: http://survarium.com/en/news/open-day-lottery-update


It's because of personal privacy.

Btw. I won't close this thread, cause someone probably want to tell everyone on the forums that he won this discussion and the evil mods just want to hide the unsuccessful Survarium!!1111, then.



That's an interesting post, Heavygunner. I can see why it was deleted mainly because those numbers aren't good, by any stretch for an indie developer in the heavily popular survival multiplayer genre.
Last edited by Raven1417 on 21.05.2014, 19:16, edited 3 times in total.
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21.05.2014, 19:26

Raven1417:That's an interesting post, Heavygunner. I can see why it was deleted mainly because those numbers aren't good, by any stretch for an indie development in the heavily popular survival multiplayer genre.


1. When a Beta starts and ends is given by the devs and not by you.
2. Only because some things change and might come later into Survarium Vostok won't do a new Timeline, it is not supposed to be 100% accurate.
3. It was not deleted, cause the number are bad but because Joe replied already too your post.
4....and because the post is outdated, since i will close this thread now.

This thread shall be locked since this discussion won't come to an ending.
Last edited by Heavygunner on 21.05.2014, 19:27, edited 1 time in total.
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21.05.2014, 19:35

If you present any facts or informed opinions based on facts regarding anything that puts Survarium in a negative light your thread will be locked after you receive silly vitriolic comments from fans but before conclusions can be reached due to the sensitive egos of certain moderators.

Even if the developers and/or those with true inside knowledge decide to answer questions and work on putting things to rest there will be no conclusion because some moderators can not act in a professional manner and will lock your threads purely because they are politely proven wrong after posting unsubstantiated opinions as facts.
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21.05.2014, 20:25

Remember guys:

Don't feed the troll! ♫
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21.05.2014, 20:30

If a moderator locks a thread it stays locked and won't be reanimated. Since the other topic has run its cures the lock was reasonable. If you have a problem with the moderation send a message to: joe@vostokgames.com .
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